Jon and Justin talk about how freeing it is to realize your sanctification isn't for you.
Regular Episode
MEMBERS Podcast Transcripts
Jon Moffitt: Welcome to the members' podcast. We're just going to leak a little bit of information in that it's changing soon. There are some good things coming. Can we just drop a little bit of what's coming? Can we just sound the name? Can we do that?
Justin Perdue: Would it be prudent? I don't know.
Jon Moffitt: We are getting rid of the membership and we are asking you to join the team.
Justin Perdue: You just freaked a bunch of people out by saying we're getting rid of it.
Jon Moffitt: I know. We're going to ask you to join Theocast and the way we're going to do that is we're going to create a new ministry called Semper Reformanda. For those of you that don't know what that means, it means "always reforming". The concept of what we're going to do is we want you to come and be a part of this Reformation that's happening. Join the Reformation. Instead of buying something from Theocast, we want you to buy in. We want you to come be a part. We want you to be with us. That's all I'm going to tell you. It is exciting. It's a lot of work. We are trying to figure out how to launch this soon, but stay tuned for that. We are going to be doing a lot of different things.
Going back to the conversation, first of all, we want to thank you guys for your support. I know we say it all the time. I legitimately say this: almost our entire budget for accomplishing all that we do comes from the membership. It's what gets us flushed every month. If we didn't have the membership, we wouldn't be doing almost everything we're doing.
Justin Perdue: There are a lot of things that we do that we just could not do at all.
Jon Moffitt: One of the things that I'm realizing in my own life and the life of my congregation—Justin and I have talked about this so much—is that when someone truly comes to Christ and takes off that burden... as Jesus says, "Come to me and I will give you a list of things to do." No, he says, "Come to me and I will give you rest. My burden is light." Compared to what the Law gives you, and trying to live up to the expectation of earning righteousness, proving your purchase is ridiculous. What happens is that it just gets people energized about the potential of what they can do, and that potential is not based upon income or talent. It's not based upon status or gender. It's not based upon eyesight or hearing or voice. You can love someone without eyesight or the capacity to speak or hear. You can love. The thing is you can truly love and change someone's entire world because of you carrying their burden, because you are loving them unconditionally for the first time because they've never experienced it. "Wait a minute. You're not judging me because I'm not living up to a certain standard?" Those who are resting in the finished work of Christ need not the approval of anyone, because they have their Father's approval. They are the most powerful at loving others.
Justin Perdue: I was having a conversation with a few people from my church this past weekend, in the aftermath of our corporate gathering, and what we've been considering from Ephesians and different things, and we're in the latter half of Ephesians 2—so it's the very practical boots on the ground, here's how you live together stuff. I think a lot of times people in the Calvinistic world almost goes, "Oh, man. We're out of the soaring doctrinal Ephesians 1-3, and now we're talking about more practical stuff." It's almost like a letdown in people's minds. I have found it not to be that at all. In fact, for our congregation, our people have loved the material in the latter half of the Ephesians. First of all, we're grounding it all in Ephesians 1-3, because that's what Paul does. We're thinking about all of this in light of our union with Christ, and what Jesus has done for us, and the grace of God to us, and God's eternal plans for us. But then we get to think about the ways that we then, in the midst of this safe, secure, restful, peaceful place, how we now get to live with one another and what we're called to do—and people are motivated. People are like, "Yeah, in light of what Christ has done for me and we, together, we love each other already and we are clinging to Jesus together, tell me what to do and how I'm supposed to live." These imperatives and these exhortations from the apostle Paul no longer feel like a burden at all, but they feel like a joy.
I know that sounds cliche to say, but it's true. The kind of doctrine and theology that we talk about here at Theocast all the time—that's Reformed, confessional, and biblical—actually sets us free. It makes these imperatives and these exhortations something that we know is no longer drudgery and heavy. It's no longer, "I've got to do this well enough to prove myself. I've got to always measure myself in terms of my performance." No, it's a free, exciting, thrilling thing that we now get to do together. It's just all kinds of cool to watch people; the light bulbs go off and people realize it is wonderful. "Yes, let's be gentle. Let's be humble. Let's love each other. Let's be patient. I do realize that I often am not those things, but I want to be. I'm motivated not because my pastor has thrown guilt and shame all over me, but I'm motivated because of God, because of Christ and the gospel. I know I'm safe. Now I want to go love my brother or sister. I want to be gentle with him. I want to be patient with her. I want to stir my brother and sister up to love and to good works. I don't want to be proud and condescending. I want to be humble and bearup underneath their burdens with them. Let's walk together." It's awesome.
We're not only removed of the burden of needing to prove ourselves before the Lord, and the guilt and shame that we carry around—just the burden of the Law—we're set free from all that, but it's a liberation unto love and good works that is hard. You can try to explain it, but a lot of times it's a taste-and-see reality for people. It's just so unquestionably, on the face of it, good. People are just giddy about the idea of being able to love each other.
Jon Moffitt: There are two things that just remind me. I told this to my wife this morning. We were talking about her women's Bible study last night, some things that happened there. I said that I'm so fatigued right now, but it gives me so much energy to keep doing what we're doing, because what we're doing truly matters. It is changing people's perspectives in ways that... I can't fix the problem they're suffering in, but they feel this freedom coming off of them. They feel cared for, they feel loved.
One of the things that I love is watching someone come to life. We've had so many new babies in our church. I love meeting all of these new children and they're so beautiful. Watching someone come to spiritual life is unspeakable joy. As Paul says, it's one of the most glorious experiences. But the second thing that I love is watching someone's eyes open to the gospel that's being cluttered and clouded. They've been under the weight of the Law for so long that when they start peeking around the corner, you can see it on their face. It's this look of, "Where has this been my entire life?" We have had so many people in the last few months who have been showing up, and our congregants are beginning to see in the local Bible studies that we're doing, and even on Sunday mornings, they're watching these people's spiritual expressions of, "This is liberating. This is freeing. I feel loved. I feel like I can confess sin. I feel like I can share burdens that I've been carrying around my whole entire life that I thought no one cared about." What I'm realizing is that our church is finding purpose on levels they didn't know existed. Before, it was how much money they could raise, how well their kids could be brought up and are they performing well? If you think about it, that is just despairing. You'll never make enough money, your kids will never be good enough, and you'll definitely never perform a good enough.
Justin Perdue: All that metric stuff and that quantifiable stuff is just exhausting. I think what fuels you in ministry, and I can say this for myself personally, but I think it fuels a local church, to your point... Because I've seen it in our people, too, where our members are encouraged, not only as they see the church grow numerically and all that. They can tell that the church is just growing in health, love, unity, and all this—that's encouraging—but they are witnessing people... These people are already Christians, but it's like being born again. It's like the scales get knocked off, the light bulbs go off, and they see these people for the first time, realizing the rest, peace, security, and the freedom that they have in Christ. It is a life-altering experience for many, and it's super cool to be a part of it. That's not just for the guy who's up in the pulpit preaching. It's because we are a congregation, and we are loving and submitting and watching over each other. We, together, get to witness this happen in the lives of people—and it's epic. In terms of life on earth, there really isn't anything that I can think of that's a lot more joyful than seeing something like that happen for people in a local church context. You want to continue to invite people in.
It's Matthew 11:28-30. We always cite this and it's a part of our tagline for our ministry: encouraging where he pilgrims to rest in Christ. The posture of our Lord and Savior tells us to come and to learn from him, to take his yoke upon ourselves, he is gentle and lowly in heart, and he will give us rest for our souls. We're all weary pilgrims, we're all weary saints, and we need this. You want to invite other brothers and sisters into it. Come and taste this, see this, experience this, and behold Christ this way with us. It's second to none.
Jon Moffitt: I wish I had thought of this earlier. I wish I could rewrite the book Pilgrim's Progress and make it plural: Pilgrims' Progress. Because this is what this really is. We are journeying together. Holding each other together versus this. Pilgrim's Progress is a great example of what a modern evangelicalism is turned into. It's the personal progress of the individual and it's so isolating and so alone.
I will tell you this right now. This is our family meeting. It's our family podcast. I'm just going to tell you: I have the greatest desire to change the world, and I know Justin does, too. What I want to change is this: I don't want to remove hunger—that's not God's desire. I don't want to remove pain—that's not His desire. I know it sounds crazy to say that. I don't want to remove suffering.
Justin Perdue: He will do all those things himself.
Jon Moffitt: That is His promise. That is clear.
Justin Perdue: But that is not our mission.
Jon Moffitt: No. What I want to change is people's perspective of God and the gospel. That's the part of the world I want to change. I want to see people resting and finding their purpose.
You know what makes sense to me these days? When it says love not the world, and none of the things of the world, what makes sense to me is that pain, suffering, crime murder, cancer, all of that—that's a constant reminder of people loving that which is going to disappoint you. When you invest your love into a believer, you'll never be disappointed in that because that's God's child, and you are helping them along the way as they wait to go home. You are giving them hope and joy. That's the purpose of the church. That's the purpose of Christianity. That's the purpose of your sanctification.
Justin Perdue: What you've just described is the way that we ought to understand the words of Jesus when he says that we ought not try to store up treasures for ourselves here, but we ought to store up treasure in heaven. What we're talking about is an appropriate application of those words. Because the stuff of this earth—what happens to it? It's either taken from you or it decays. But this other stuff that you're doing has lasting value. It's eternally significant as we all look to Christ on our way to the Celestial City, to use that kind of imagery from Pilgrim's Progress.
It's like storing up for yourselves treasures in heaven. We take that to mean, again, me by myself doing something uber spiritual. A lot of that storing up treasure in heaven is going to be loving the saints.
Jon Moffitt: Right. Where are you putting your hope? That's what that means.
Justin Perdue: And you're going to demonstrate that your hope is in Christ by being a part of a local church that's about him, and by loving your brothers and sisters, because that's the point of your life on earth. It is to love your brothers and sisters, and to point other people to Jesus as their only hope, and as the only secure like guarantee of salvation they could ever have.
Jon Moffitt: That's right. It's been a good discussion and as always, we enjoyed it. There's not enough time. I wish we had more time.
Justin Perdue: It's very unscripted today and sometimes, those are the most fun because we just get to riff.
Jon Moffitt: Next week, hopefully, Justin and I will be recording live together. Lord willing, if it all works out, we'll be together. We have a special episode for you then so you have to stay tuned for that. We're excited for that.
We're going to do something on suffering and pain, and really the problem with pain and thinking through that from a biblical perspective, and how we, as the church, can offer more than just that. We will talk about that next week. Thanks for listening.
