Experiencing God (S|R)

Jon and Justin talk about the goodness and the sweetness of confessional theology--as well as the confusion and harm that exists outside of it.

Resources:
1689 LBC (especially 2.1, 5.5)

Scripture:
Ephesians 1:3-14, 2:4-7
Romans 5:1-11
Hebrews 10:1-14, 12:1-2
Genesis 1-3

Giveaway: "Christianity and Liberalism" by J. Gresham Machen

Semper Reformanda Transcripts

Justin Perdue: Welcome to the Semper Reformanda podcast. What's up, family? We're here to talk with you, talking with our people who have joined the Reformation. We're two weeks deep. Here we go.

We just came off of recording the podcast on Experiencing God. It's sort of a play on the old book title. Jon, we had a good conversation about how we really do, I think in our lives, wrestle with God's posture toward us. Is He really gracious toward me? Is God really benevolent? Does He really love me? Because sometimes my life seems to indicate that He does and sometimes my life seems to indicate something else. But then the sweetness of being able to look to Christ and him being the definite article evidence of God's grace is reassuring for us. It is for me.

So now we're going to have some more conversation along these lines. And I think where we want to start is just by talking about how good confessional theology is and how practical it is. Then we may ask some questions and process some stuff on the fly.

I know I've joked before about how we're saying things that are really old, and they're so old that they sound new, and I've made my little pop tart joke that some people liked and some people didn't. The old commercials.... The late eighties and early nineties are when I was becoming aware of commercials, and they were pop tart commercials that were so hot that they're cool, and so cool that they're hot. And I just thought they were cool commercials. Anyway, that's really neither here nor there.

The fact that confessional theology is old lends it credibility. But one of the reasons why we love it so much is because it is immediately practical and it is reassuring, it is comforting, it's rock under our feet, it's a pillow at the same time to rest our head on, and it is self-authenticating. I think our conversation today is some evidence of that; how people who are ignorant of the confessions—and thereby ignorant of the teaching of the Bible that Christians have held to for a long time—not meaning to, but often end up sowing seeds of doubt in the minds and hearts of people that listened to them talk.

Jon, I might let you go for a minute on that and then I'll just respond to some of the things that you say. We'll see where this takes us, my friend.

Jon Moffitt: Part of Semper Reformanda is expanding the Reformation, and what we mean by that is Reformational theology, continuing to shape and form our minds around the historical theology and helping us understand the Bible more.

I will tell you one of the greatest frustrations I have is that because someone is big and famous, and they have a big platform, that becomes their legitimacy instead of comparing what they're saying to what we have said that the saints have confirmed for all time. I fell into this trap. This is where this is family time. I became a John MacArthurite. He could do no wrong. He could say no wrong. Basically there was the Bible and then there was the MacArthur commentaries. And as I began to read them, I gleaned a lot and I learned a lot and it was very helpful. And then I started to, one, learn about a historical issue he had back in the eighties where he was confronted denying the eternal Sonship of Christ, which he repented of and changed his mind on. Then there were some other issues that came into play. But when I started looking at where my feet are grounded, I began to realize it was more upon one man's interpretation of Scripture than it was upon the history of interpretation and the history of Christianity. And when I discovered confessional theology, it really helped me understand that a lot of what I believe, I didn't even know where it came from. I just thought everyone believed it, or most people believed it, but I didn't know why or where it came from. Of course I could see it in the Bible, and then I realized there was much more in the Bible I didn't even know. It's like I didn't know what I didn't know.

Part of what this podcast is designed for is to help you to see what you don't know, and then realize how, one, it is probably leading you into pietism or, two, it's the reason why you have rest. We want to do either one of those. But I will tell you that when you hear confusing statements that come from people, and I'll just name some names because these are often in the Facebook group, the questions that we get—which, by the way, if you aren't in the new Facebook group for Semper Reformanda, that's designed for you so that we can work on this membership and work on this network, so get over there and be a part of that. You can find it at wordpress-1294806-4720887.cloudwaysapps.com/members. You do hear men, and I'll even say women, say things that will contradict what Christianity has held to historically. David Platt and Matt Chandler and Piper and MacArthur—again, please hear me: I'm not calling these men heretics, I'm not saying they're dangerous, or any of those kinds of things. All I'm saying is that often they say things that are not consistent, and they actually go against historical theology that's been clearly set out for us. A good example of this is why we quoted to you the confession, which is aligning with Scripture, that tells us that God does not change. And that's important for you to understand because it's going to influence how you write and read, and how you preach and counsel.

We're a little bit more pointed and punchy in this section because you are the ones who are trying to train, and you were the ones who were trying to prepare, so that you can understand and really continue on this message, to continue on what we're trying to start here with Theocast. We're going to do it on the microphones, but we are hoping that you do it in conversation gently, patiently, and graciously. But this is why we will say that confessional theology, when it comes to the nature of God, the nature of the gospel, and the nature of sanctification are so important because they keep you from, I would say, teaching man-made theology, modern theology, and even liberal theology. The confessions were a reaction towards Catholicism, which was a man-made religion.

Justin Perdue: I think one of the really good things about confessional theology is the fact that it's all rooted in the understanding that our salvation is completely outside of us. It's extra nos. What that does is it then teaches us a number of things that if I am ultimately going to see the grace of God toward me, the love of God toward me, the favor of God upon me, I don't so much want to look within. Again, I want to be really clear that the confessions say this, and we uphold it and affirm it, that we can be encouraged by our transformation of life, and our assurance can be bolstered as we look at the fruit of our salvation. Amen and praise God. And at the end of the day, in your good or bad moments, if you want to fundamentally see God's graciousness toward you, you need to look outside of yourself and to Christ alone—and I think the confessions bear that out in confessional theology because it is characterized by this objective posture. It actually can ground a struggling sinner in the midst of our hard days, and there's just nothing else that can do that. It's very clear, like we were talking about, Jon, that even the way the Bible begins in Genesis 1-3 and then how things begin to unfold from there. After Genesis 3:15 and the promise of the covenant of grace, everything else that exists in the Bible is an unfolding of that promise, and it's an unfolding of God in accordance with His nature, saving sinners by His grace and mercy, and Him doing it completely through the work and merit and righteousness of His Son. These things are just so immediately practical all the time.

I do agree with you. I think that guys that mean well, they're Calvinists in terms of being five-pointers and stuff, will say things that are at best confusing and at worst damning for people that are listening to them. At times they sound schizophrenic, at times they sound angry. It's like I've left this service today listening to this sermon and what I am left with ultimately is questioning whether or not I'm God's at all, which I do not think—as I read the Scriptures and as I read the confessions—I just don't think that's what the Lord intends for His people.

I was referencing earlier in the 1689—chapter five, paragraph five on God's Providence is one of the best paragraphs in the whole confession because it talks about how God, in His providence, often ordains that His people are struggling and mired in sin. And he does that not to cause us to question our salvation; He does that to humble us, He does it to teach us continually how much we need Him, He does that to teach us the reality of our sinfulness so that in the future, we might not go down that same path again. And then it's other things in there, like how all of these things are for God's good purposes for His people—and I just don't think that's the message you get a lot of the time. Because most of the time, what I hear from people is, "Well, okay, if you're sinning, then what you should do is question. What you need to do is get more serious, more devoted, and more dedicated, and then maybe you can have assurance again and know that you're legitimate." But in reality, no, if you're in Christ Jesus, and you're trusting him, even this sin that you're mired in—first of all, we like repent of it and we pray that you're going to be restored by those around you, and we're going to seek to restore you and flee from it—but this sin that you're mired in does not for one second mean that you're not Christ's, and does not for one second mean that God is not up to His good purposes in your life even when you're sinning. And that matters. It matters for my life. I trust it does for yours.

Jon Moffitt: Absolutely. I did an episode recently on false converts and we deal with them, and these messages that we are speaking of—the nature of God towards individuals—I think God's nature does not change based upon whether someone is truly a convert or a false convert. And I know that may sound elementary, Justin, but one of the things I'm trying to get at is that if you and I are standing in front of someone who is claiming to be a believer, but they're clearly not, and we can look at it and say, "Hmm, this person is confused on what the gospel is," does God's posture towards them change? No, it doesn't. Therefore, the message I give to them does not change.

If I'm looking at someone and they're not a believer, from what I can tell, and if they are a believer, the message is not changing because God's message of the gospel is if you believe and you accept this, then you will be God's child.

The famous Spurgeon quote is if the back of every human being was marked whether they were elect or not, then we would just walk around lifting up coattails to determine who it is we're going to share the gospel with. In many ways, when we're dealing with the whole false convert thing, it's like we're trying to run around and actually do what Spurgeon is saying. We're trying to run around, lifting up people's coattails, saying whether they are false converts or not. There's a reason why we trust in the sufficiency of the gospel. The reason I say this, Justin, is that because we have what I call "false converts snoopers"—we're always trying to snoop around and sniff them out—the whole nature of preaching, counseling, and shepherding has changed, where we want to make sure that we're ripping out the tares to keep the wheat. And Jesus says not to do that. Leave it. That is God's job; it is not your job to figure out who the false converts are. It's your job to faithfully preach the gospel and shepherd people.

Justin Perdue: Totally. I know we've said things like this before, but I feel the need to say it again. The way that we—and by we, I'm talking about the church broadly—approach this whole issue of false converts, how we need to treat them, and what we need to do in order to help them is insane to me. It's like I think this person is unconverted. If I really think this person is unconverted, that means that they are not born again, they don't have God's Spirit living in them, they're not united to Christ. But if my message to them is basically, "Do better. Try harder. Get more serious about God," I think that's going to be of some help to the "nominal person" in the audience. That is insane to me. I don't understand. Because to me, rather than saying that, I think what we need to do is rightly divide law and gospel, help people understand the law the way that it should be understood. And the primary use of that law is to crush sinners. If you've got a nominal person or a false convert, they don't understand the law rightly because they either have understood themselves to be doing fine, or they don't understand the holiness and the seriousness and the terror, frankly, of God's law outside of Christ. So what they need to be shown is God's law in all of its holiness, in all of its requirements, and how they don't meet the standard. And then they need to be given Jesus.

It's not complicated in that regard, but to say, "Get serious about God" is not the law. That's not law preaching; it's a confusion of law and gospel preaching. But law preaching says, "Here is what holiness looks like, and here is what God requires of us at the level of thought, deed, desire, and everything else. How are you doing with that? And if you're not doing well with that, you stand condemned. And God's wrath is terrifying. We all deserve it." And then what we say is, "But here is the nature of our God—that He has determined from before all time to save people, not according to what we've done, but according to what Christ has done for us. And let me tell you about him, what he has done for you, and why you so desperately need him. In every way you have failed, he has succeeded. In all the ways that you have failed and thereby have the wrath of God upon you, he has satisfied for those sins, and he has satisfied for your corrupt nature that you inherited from Adam, and he is your only hope for forgiveness and absolution and righteousness in life—and so trust him. That's how you handle that.

Jon Moffitt: No, that's good. This does relate to the experience of God and experiencing God, and the gospel is what centers us. The gospel does not waiver; it is fact, it is history, it is finished, and it is done. This is why we focus on the gospel; because that's what centers our emotions and it centers our experience with God.

We could go on forever. We are continuing to develop this membership. It is in the grassroots stage. We have an app—by now it might be out. Who knows? We're flying by the seat of our pants. We're continuing to grow and we'll keep adding people to the team. Please pray for us. We get exhausted at times, but we are very passionate.

Justin Perdue: And do continue to just bear with us and send us correspondence about things that aren't working like they should and all of that. Don't get discouraged and frustrated with us. We're trying. This is not, by any means, our day job and our full-time job. We certainly don't do this for the money. Like Jon said, we're doing the best that we can. We're so grateful for you and are really excited about this next chapter of Theocast and this Semper Reformanda community and ministry. Please pray that the Lord would grow it and use it.

It is my job now to sign us off, so this is me doing that. Look forward to having more of these conversations, Lord willing, in the weeks to come. We're really excited for what the Lord has for SR, and for you guys and gals, as you seek to meet with each other and encourage each other. It brings Jon and I a lot of joy when we think about it.

So we'll talk again next week. Grace and peace to you.