Jon Moffitt: Hi, this is Jon. Today on Theocast, Justin and I have this conversation: your sanctification is not for you. We hope you enjoy the conversation. Stay tuned.
Justin Perdue: Your sanctification is not about you. Your sanctification, I’ll even say, is not for your good; it is for the good of your neighbor. As Martin Luther is credited with saying, and we say all the time, God doesn’t need your good works—but your neighbor does. That is today’s conversation in a nutshell. Our sanctification by the work of God’s Spirit in us is not ultimately for us; it’s for the good of our brothers and sisters and all of those who are close to us.
Jon Moffitt: Now, we’ve got to prove it. Let me put it this way. One of the things that I would say most Christians, when it comes to sanctification, the way I would describe their life is proof of purchase: you need to prove that you’ve been purchased by Christ, so everything they do, all of sanctification is a proof of purchase.
When I talk to people coming out of a Calvinistic background, or Calvingelicals, as we like to say, or just an evangelical background, you hear them saying that you better be demonstrating, you better be showing, you better be proving, and you better be examining. We just did a podcast on that. You can go back and listen to the examination episodes.
One of the things that I struggle with is when you look at the New Testament, you don’t have the New Testament pushing the believer towards this constant proof of purchase, that you need to be proving to yourself and to others around you and to God that you are saved.
I know that they would say that’s not what they’re saying. But in many ways, if you think about what they’re calling the believer to, it is a proof of purchase. One of the things I say is if God is sovereign, and God knows all things, and He knows my heart, and He knows to whom belongs to Him, I would be surprised if in the mind of God, He goes, “Oh, I adopted you? I don’t remember that. Why don’t you prove to me that I did that?” God knows His own. That is the glorious promise of the nature of God: He cannot be surprised, He does not learn, He does not change. If you are trying to prove that you belong to God, and unfortunately, final salvation, and misinterpreting Hebrews where people say that God is going to look at your good works to determine whether you belong to Him, is a complete misinterpretation of Scripture. We did a whole podcast on that. I will put it in the notes. It’s called Dazed and Confused. Hebrews 12. When it comes down to now proof of each other, there’s this list that’s been given to you—these are the things that they say you need to be working on as an individual so you can call it sanctification. If you aren’t doing this, if you weren’t sanctifying yourself, in these ways, then most likely you’re not a believer again. Now we’ve gone from proof of purchase to God, to proof that I am living up to the claim of Christianity, which, there are a lot of movements out there that are calling people into question—if you say you’re a Christian and you don’t act like it, then you better start acting like it.
So what I’m going to push back with in this beginning section is the point of good works, or the point of sanctification, is proof—almost 100% of the time. That is the design of it. What we’re going to argue with this morning is that when you listen to how the New Testament writers describe fruit—and the purpose of your fruit, and the growth in godliness, and the growth in Christ-likeness, they tell you why you need to be doing it.
What’s interesting to me is that there are a few times, which we will reference in this podcast, where they will say, show me your faith by your works—but there’s a context to it, and it has nothing to do with proof of purchase, which is interesting. It has everything to do with what we’re going to be arguing about right now, which is that your neighbor needs your love and you’re unwilling to give it. You can’t say you love Christ and not love your neighbor. That’s what James and 1 John are saying.
Justin Perdue: We could start any number of places, and like you said a minute ago, now we need to prove and demonstrate not our legitimacy before the Lord, but we need to prove and demonstrate what we are arguing for today, which is that your sanctification is for the benefit of your brothers and sisters.
Again, like I said, we could go to a number of passages in the New Testament. I’m going to start if I can, with Ephesians 4:1 and following. Many people are familiar with that wonderful letter and how the letter, at least in our modern chapter breakdown, it does break down nicely into two large sections: the first three chapters, and then the latter three chapters; the first three chapters being soaring doctrine of the eternal plan of God, His grace, His mercy, His purpose is realized through Christ, the finished work of Jesus for us—all of that stuff. Then he pivots at the beginning of chapter four to then talk to the Ephesian Christians about how they’re now to live together in the church.
I am actually preaching through Ephesians right now. When I got to this section of the letter, the way that I framed this piece of that letter is this: if you were asked to write a letter to a church about how they are to live together, how would you start it? Based on everything that you have ever heard, everything you’ve ever read, or everything you’ve ever been taught, how would you begin such a letter to a church about how they’re to live together? Let that question sit in your mind and then consider how Paul begins. How does he begin his exhortation? He begins with words like this: he says to walk in a manner worthy of the calling to which you’ve been called. By that, he means walk in a way commensurate with the gospel, not walk in a way that would make you worthy to be saved. That’s impossible. Walk in a way that’s commensurate with the gospel, but what does that look like, Paul?
Jon Moffitt: When people hear that, automatically they think morality. That’s what they think. Like these are the moral things that you need to be doing, and these are the actions: reading your Bible, praying, tithing, etc.
Justin Perdue: Disciplines. Absolutely. Listen to what Paul says. Here is what it would look like in the mind of the apostle to walk in a way that’s commensurate with the gospel. He says, “With all humility and gentleness, with patience, bearing with one another in love, eager to maintain the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.” Then he goes on for a few verses to talk about the basis of that unity. There’s one body, one Spirit, one hope, one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all.
But where does the apostle begin? This is very instructive for us. He begins with humility and gentleness, patience, bearing with one another in love, eager to maintain unity in the body of Christ. It’s quite clear in all of these things that he is exhorting the Ephesian Christians to. The point of this is that all of these things are things that your neighbor, your brother and sister, is desperately going to need from you. This is not ultimately about you. This is about what your brothers and sisters need from you, so that we all together—because this is where he’s going so—might be built up in love unto maturity in Christ Jesus. I just think it’s such a paradigm shift, Jon, for people who have been catechized, again, explicitly or implicitly, to think that their sanctification exists primarily for their own improvement and for their own moral uprightness, confidence before the Lord, and all that. Then indirectly, as they’re grown in these ways, they may be useful to other people. No, flip that on its head. Because the main point of your sanctification is that you would be good for your brothers and sisters, that you might walk in love, and humility, and patience, and gentleness with them, and that there might be unity in the church around the Lord Jesus Christ. Plus the fact that we have a common confession in him that we are saved, not by what we do, but by what Christ has done for us, and we cast ourselves upon him. We together are clinging to each other, as we all cling to Jesus, as we often say. That’s where the apostle begins. It’s super instructive and helpful.
Jon Moffitt: What is interesting is that he says, “eager to maintain the unity of the Spirit and the bond of peace”. Everybody that I meet is that hyper sensitive to their own sanctification. It is a good thing. I appreciate their love and affection for God. They truly are trying to find ways to suppress sin and reflect godliness. The problem that I have here is that they have been misled to think that the purpose of the Christian life is to decrease sin and increase godliness. The increasing of godliness, though, is absent from this very thing that Paul says, which is to maintain the unity and the bond of peace. Their increase of godliness is actually isolated from maintaining unity and peace, because they are increasing in godliness in ways which they think less sin means more godliness, and more discipline means more godliness. If I am more stoic, disciplined, and well knowledged -I’ve got a lot of knowledge about the Bible, I pray a lot, and I read a lot—I’m a godly person. Paul does not describe worthy or godly in that fashion. He actually describes it with patience, meekness, and long suffering.
Let me read you another section. We have to get to the latter part of Ephesians 4, which I know we will, but just something else that is very similar to this: I’m going to read you 1 Corinthians 13.
Justin Perdue: We need to apologize to everyone who has ever had 1 Corinthians 13 read in a wedding because everybody thinks it’s a wedding text, when in reality, it’s about love in the church.
Jon Moffitt: If you want to say, “love your wife”, it’s really for the context of the church.
Again, Paul writing to the Corinthian church, Paul writing to the Ephesian church; you have to understand these are not individual letters to be read individually, but these are to the congregation to be applied. So he says this: “If I speak in the tongues of men and angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing. Love is patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant or rude. It does not insist on its own; it is not irritable or resentful. . .” Do I need to keep going? The point of it is, to say that you love someone is the fruits of the Spirit that are coming out of you. Sanctification is the process of loving your brothers and sisters without envy and strife, thinking about unity, thinking about patience and kindness. He even says this: “Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.” The idea of that being that we are carrying the weight of our brothers and sisters by the motivation of love.
Justin Perdue: Two big interjections right here on 1 Corinthians 13: one, love and patience go together. They’re inextricably linked. It’s very clear in the way that Paul describes love in 1 Corinthians 13 that love, by definition, is long-suffering. So, that whole idea of bearing with one another is wrapped up in love. Like he says, love is patient, and it’s calm. Love endures all things. It bears all things. It’s what love is. I think that’s an important observation. If we’re always getting uber frustrated with our brothers and sisters, because they’re not doing as well as we think they should be. “Why are you still struggling with this? This is just hard for me. Your weaknesses and the bends in your frame is just making my life difficult. It’s hard to bear with you and live with you.” Love will carry the day in that environment where we say, “No, this is what we do in the church: we love one another, and we bear with one another, as we are all struggling against the corruption of our flesh.”
Second thought from 1 Corinthians 13: it’s really cool how he begins that chapter. It’s like saying you can have all the gifts in the world, like prophecy and tongues, you can have the strongest faith in the world, you can have unmatched zeal—like I’m willing to die for the gospel, and I’m willing to give away everything I have for the gospel—but if you don’t have love, he says it’s all meaningless. It’s very clear that love and bearing with one another in this kind of gentleness and patience piece is absolutely primary in the Christian life. So if we’re going to talk about sanctification, we ought to be talking in those terms.
Jon Moffitt: I was just thinking about giving your life. You think about even the street preachers who go out and you look at what they do. I’m like, “Look, you’re definitely telling the truth, but you’re missing out on 1 Corinthians.” Also when it says speak the truth in love, you are receiving so much criticism and yet you are forgetting. I’m not saying don’t go to the streets preaching, but you need to understand the point of what we’re communicating is the love of Christ to redeem people from their sins.
Justin Perdue: I’m going to take us to a different passage, which is also incredibly important. Galatians 5:25 and following. The end of Galatians 5 and the early part of Galatians 6. Galatians 5:16-24—it’s the famous section on the works of the flesh and the fruit of the Spirit. Paul says in verse 25, “If we live by the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit. The very next verse, verse 26, “Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another. Brothers, if anyone is caught in any transgression, you who are spiritual should restore him in a spirit of gentleness. Keep watch on yourself, lest you too be tempted. Bear one another’s burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ.” Because there’s that chapter division in between them where chapter six starts, a lot of times, these words are somewhat pulled apart. How many times have you heard people talk about what it might look like to walk in the Spirit? They say all kinds of stuff, and most of the time, what’s said is not bad at all, but in the immediate context of Galatians 5, where Paul says, “Let us walk by the Spirit,” what does he write? He says to not become conceited. Let’s not be arrogant and proud in the way that we deal with one another, looking down on other people, and being condescending, and all that stuff. Let’s not provoke one another. Again, that’s gentleness; not trying to provoke people and stir people up in a bad way. Let’s not envy one another.
Then he says, “If there are people among you who are caught in sin, those of you who are spiritual,” those of you who are mature, “should restore that person in a spirit of gentleness.” There’s that word again. Gentleness and restoration. We want to see sinners restored to the fold, not beaten to death, but brought back in lovingly and gently. He says to keep, watch on yourself, lest you to be tempted. There’s humility realizing that if it’s not for the grace of God, there go I. Then bear one another’s burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ. You walk with your brothers and sisters in such a way where, as they are struggling, you bear up underneath those burdens with them. You come alongside and you aim to be helpful. You don’t pile it on if their lives are going badly. You say, “Brother, how can I be of help to you? Sister, how can I encourage you in Christ and help you think through this matter? How can I be of assistance here?” Those are the words that immediately surround Paul’s exhortation for us to walk in the Spirit—and that’s just not the way that it’s often discussed. At least it wasn’t discussed that way in my contexts for a long time.
Again, walking by the Spirit—people would immediately assume that if they are going to walk by the Spirit, it has everything to do with their personal disciplines and what they are doing in their time that’s quiet and alone, and not how they are living in the context of the community of the church. But clearly in the minds of the apostles, walking by the Spirit is a corporate thing that we do together. It’s just a paradigm shift all over the place. I trust after we do a few passages of scripture, we can probably talk about how liberating this is and how it reorients the focus.
I’m going to pause and let you go to Ephesians 4.
Jon Moffitt: I got to go to 2 Peter first and then I’ll go to Ephesians 4 because the two go together.
2 Peter 1. I just want to read a couple of verses so you understand. It says, “His divine power has granted to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of our Lord and savior Jesus Christ.” He goes on to talk about the great, very great promises, that we are saved by God’s divine power. Then he says, “For this very reason, make every effort to supplement your faith with virtue, and virtue with knowledge. . .” He’s describing sanctification. He’s describing that this is the outflow; you are now going to be sharing or expressing what’s new about you. Then he says, “. . . and godliness with brotherly love, and brotherly love with affection. For if these qualities are yours and increasing, they keep you from being ineffective or unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.” God does not need this from you because He doesn’t need anything from us. Who needs it? This is why he says ineffective. Who needs our love? Who needs our patience? Who needs our godliness? Not God; our neighbor does.
If we go back to Ephesians 4, you have Peter talking about this ineffectiveness, how we already then take this knowledge of God’s divine nature of saving us, and then we use that as our means of loving our brother. Let’s go to Ephesians 4:15: “Rather, speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in every way into him who is the head, into Christ.” Every Christian understands they want to grow. Verse 16: “. . .from whom the whole body, joined and held together by every joint with which it is equipped, when each part is working properly, makes the body grow so that it builds itself up in love.” So, you hear Paul talking about maintaining the bond of peace, walking in a manner worthy of calling which you have been called.
Then he says, “growing in the knowledge of Christ”. How is that accomplished? It’s accomplished in the local body. Do you know where Paul gets the most angry? (I would say all the New Testament writers get the most angry.) It’s when someone’s coming up and dividing the body and causing division, because what’s ended up happening is if a body is divided, it’s not working properly, and therefore it’s not growing. So when we make the statement, “your sanctification is not about you”, it’s not. It’s about us. It’s about the body. It’s about the local congregation. When you are so individualizing, proving your purchase, you are detaching yourself from the very thing that Paul, Peter, and the New Testament writers are driving you into.
Justin Perdue: I’m going to reference James 2 in a drive-by fashion. I know that that is a text that’s raised often about needing to prove our faith by our works, and we have no issue because the confessions have no issue with using the language of our fruit being evidence of the fact that we’ve been justified. That’s entirely fine. What we think we would understand James to be saying is not that we’re saved by works, but that in the good works that we do that, by the way, God has already prepared beforehand for us to walk in—Ephesians 2:10. That is a validation of the fact that we have already been justified and united to the Lord Jesus.
But what is the context of James 2 that has to be asked if we’re going to rightly understand it? I think we joked about this a few weeks ago, or maybe it was a recording we did a few weeks ago. We were talking about how so often guys that do biblical interpretation and exegesis will say that the three rules of biblical interpretation are context, context, and context. We’re just saying, guys, let’s apply rule one, two, and three as we aim to understand particular passages. The context of James 2 is the sin of partiality. In the church, there is impartiality and there is favoritism being shown toward people who are wealthy, and the people who are haggard, poor, and don’t have a lot are being marginalized. He is rebuking the congregation for that reality.
Then he goes into his piece about demonstrating your faith by what you do. I would argue that the works that he has in view in writing that he’s just written about is, if you are going to say, if you’re going to claim Christ, then you need to love the weak. You need to love those who are marginalized. You need to love one another and not show favoritism in these worldly ways.
This is completely off script—like everything else that we’re doing today—but you hear people talk a lot about how the church shouldn’t look like the world, to which I agree, but it’s not often in the ways that we frame that conversation about what movies you watch or what music you listen to, or whether or not you go dancing or something. No, the church shouldn’t look like the world in that we ought to love one another in such a way that it’s obvious that we belong to Jesus like in John 13. We should love one another in such a way that people look at the church and the weak are being cared for, the marginalized are being brought in, and they love each other, and they don’t seem to have this class system that the world inherently does. That’s how, in a most pointed way, at the top of that list of how the church shouldn’t look like the world. I think that’s it. That’s what James, I think, is speaking to.
Jon Moffitt: There are probably people feeling like we just pulled the rug out from underneath their feet, and they’re not sure where they’re going here. It is so disorienting when you hear that your sanctification is not about your personal progress so that God’s pleased with you.
Justin Perdue: One line that I’m just going to mention to the reader is Romans 12. That’s a famous text where Paul pivots in Romans from doctrine to life. He’s going to exhort the Roman Christian to a number of things. Look through the list of stuff that’s in Romans 12 and tell me how many of those things are individual. The vast majority of them have an inherently corporate nature to them, whether it’s love, or hospitality, or not avenging yourselves—trust God that vengeance belongs to the Lord, love your enemies, and all these things. They’re corporate in nature. I think this is just undeniable. When you go to the New Testament, pick at any epistle and it’s the same tune over and over again.
Jon Moffitt: I might as well throw one more in there. You got Philippians. Almost in every epistle, you have these instructions of the application of loving your brother. Chapter 2 says, “So if there is any encouragement in Christ, any comfort from love, any participation in the Spirit, any affection and sympathy, complete my joy by being of the same mind, having the same love, being in full accord and of one mind. Do nothing from selfish ambition or conceit, but in humility count others more significant than yourselves. Let each of you look not only to his own interests, but also to the interests of others.” I can keep going. “Having this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus. He’s describing living a life in tune with the nature of Christ, which is what sanctification is. It’s us orienting our life towards Christ.
Justin Perdue: We could do this all day, and I’m really going to try to restrain myself, but even the weaker brother passages, 1 Corinthians 8, 1 Corinthians 10, and Romans 14 that are in these epistles, too, about how we’re to live. What’s the weaker brother stuff about? It’s about love. We have all of these freedoms in the Lord Jesus Christ, and it doesn’t matter what you eat or drink. Obviously, there is such a thing as abuse of food and drink, but it doesn’t matter what you eat and drink. What is it that governs the exercise of our liberty and the church? Love. Paul doesn’t say that under no circumstances should you ever eat meat that has been sacrificed to idols. That would be simple. He tells the church to do something that’s much more complex and difficult. He says to love each other, and let your love for one another govern the exercises of your freedoms and liberties. We literally could do this all day because the entire New Testament speaks this way.
Jon Moffitt: There are two things I want to bring up as we bring this to a close. We’ve said this before, but I want to change it up a little bit. Justin, can you think of a sin? I know this is a trick question. I’m throwing you a grounder and I apologize, but can you think of a sin that you can commit that would bring you under condemnation with God as a believer?
Justin Perdue: As a believer, none.
Jon Moffitt: Right. So there’s no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. Can you think of a sin that you could commit that won’t affect someone else? Not God, but someone else.
Justin Perdue: No.
Jon Moffitt: So, we always think about sin in our relationship to the Father. Trust me, we should not want to sin against the Father.
Justin Perdue: We need to need to be reminded of that truth, don’t we?
Jon Moffitt: Right. But what you also need to realize is that sometimes we excuse our sin. I don’t know what their thought process is, but I know in my own heart, there’s this excuse of sin because no one’s going to know about it.
We don’t understand the weight that our sin is not only offensive to God, but it affects the very people to whom God has called us to love. So, in all of these passages, he is calling you to suppress your sin and then do positive actions, which is demonstrate mercy, kindness, love, and patience. When you are increasing your love for Christ, and receiving this mercy and grace, that’s what motivates you to then in turn… when it says sanctify yourselves—because people always say we don’t emphasize sanctification—I do. You just don’t like the sanctification that I emphasize. You want to hear read more, pray more, be theologically stronger—and Paul says love more, sacrifice more, give more. The motivation for that is always love.
This is the second thing I wanted to mention: if the motivation for sanctification, or I would say, acting godly towards our brothers and sisters is love, then how do we increase our love for Christ so that we might love others more?
Those are the two big ones to ring up.
Justin Perdue: Like we like to say often, this is not an either-or situation. This is both. Of course, we want to encourage people towards thoughtful living and reflecting on the Word of God and all these kinds of things, but to speak to both of your points, how does that even happen most effectively for you to meditate and reflect on God’s Word, for you to grow in your knowledge and understanding of God’s Word, for you to grow in prayer and all these other things? How does that happen? How does that growth and development happen? How do you grow in godliness?
It’s going to happen in a corporate context, in a gospel-preaching church, where the saints are submitting themselves to the teaching and discipline of that church, and where the saints together are growing and being built up by God’s Spirit. How am I going to be sanctified? How am I going to grow? The answer to that is according to God’s Word, God’s plan is that you would have that occur in you in a local church context. You will do that as a part of a community of saints. You’re not going to do that in isolation.
Now, of course, God gives extraordinary grace in extraordinary circumstances. If a Christian is imprisoned wrongly for their faith, I trust the Lord gives grace. But let’s not be crazy. And use the exception to prove the rule. The general pattern for God’s work in us is to be done in the context of the church community, as we gather together and sit under the Word, as we come to the Lord’s Table, and as we sing and pray together. We do that weekly over the course of years and decades. It’s remarkable what the Lord can do with that. We will be transformed as we, together, behold Christ and are given Christ from the Word when we assemble. We will be changed, grown, nourished, and strengthened—to use the language of the confessions—as we, together, have a common union in Christ and come to his table to feed on him by faith. This is how this occurs. This is not mysticism. This is just God promising to bless these means that He has given us—and that occurs in the context of the gathered church. I could go on about that, Jon, but that’s my initial thought there. Even that seems counterintuitive because people think the real stuff for the Christian life happens when they’re by themselves, but the Scriptures say otherwise. The real stuff happens when you’re with the saints.
I’m having more and more people in my church admitting that they would spend time in the Word, and they’re always looking for that nugget in the day, but they’d walk away going, “I didn’t get anything. What does the Psalm mean when I read that? Then they come to men’s and women’s Bible studies, or fellowship group, or the sermon, and they walk away filled, charged, and loved, and their knowledge has completely shifted. That sounds like Ephesians 4. That’s what that sounds like. Consider how to build one another up in love and good works. That sounds like the gifting of the Spirit given to the elders, the teachers, and the preachers for the equipping of the saints. That sounds biblical versus what you’re trying to do, which is isolation.
I’m going to use biblical language, and it’s going to make people feel uncomfortable, but your growth in God’s knowledge and your growth of the Word of God, happens primarily not in seclusion, but primarily happens in the local church.
It’s remarkable, like you just said, if we all reflect on our own lives and the times when we’ve been most affected and stirred. I would imagine that 99 times out of a hundred, it’s been in some kind of a corporate setting where we’re either in corporate worship, or we’re at a Bible study, or a home group, or we’re having a conversation with a couple of friends from church about this or that thing, and we leave those circumstances edified in a very obvious way; we can see it and sense it. Sometimes we can’t. A lot of times that happens in the Christian life: God’s working and we’re not immediately aware of that. But the times when we’re most edified occur when we’re together. During the week, you’re often chasing after that “spiritual high” that you had at 11:00 AM on Sunday and you can’t get there. Have you ever considered that maybe that experience that you had at 11:00 AM on Sunday only happened because you were with the saints, and you were in the assembly, and the Lord met you? And by that, I mean met you guys corporately to minister to you in that setting because He’s promised to do it.
I think that this shift in perspective on sanctification is very liberating. It is, I think, exciting to think about how my main objective in growing in the faith ought to be to pour myself into a local church context and to give myself away for the good of my brothers and sisters. If I’m making that my aim, as I’m trusting Christ, and I’m submitting to my pastors and the doctrine of my local church, I am safe. I am going to grow, and I’m going to be used by God for all kinds of good in the lives of my brothers and sisters—and they’re going to be used in my life. You can take your eyes off of yourself for a minute; get over yourself and love your neighbor. Love your brothers and sisters. You’re more useful, and you’re more at peace, rather than obsessing about your own performance all the time in a way that’s crippling and often counterproductive.
Jon Moffitt: We’re going to definitely build on what Justin just said. We’re going to talk about how this position actually leads you to rest. It gives you purpose. I would say the most restful people who are firmly rooted in their assurance in Christ are the most effective, as Peter says, in bearing burdens and loving and caring for the body of Christ. We’ll see people truly change because they are no longer putting their hope in themselves, but in Christ.
We’re going to talk about that in what’s called our members’ podcast. This is a ministry that we put together for those that want to partner with us and see the message of resting in Christ go throughout media throughout the world in book form, article, podcasts, and video. We are in our sixth year and we are so excited that there are many of you that want to partner with us. We do an extra podcast just for you. You can go to our website to learn more about that. That is our membership.
We will see you guys in the membership. And for those of you that are listening, we’ll see you next week.